Tuesday, November 3, 2009

Torture - Yes, No, Maybe

I happened upon a blog (Experimental Theology) by Richard Beck, an Associate Professor and experimental psychologist at Abilene Christian University, Abilene, TX. The term experimental theology is intriguing so I decided to check on what is being written. It has been on my blog list for a couple of months, but as Dr. Beck was in the midst of another theological discussion I decided to wait until a new topic surfaced. Today was the day and the subject is "Christians and Torture: Part 1, The Pew Report" (link to Beck's blog).

The use of torture is anathema to me. I find it difficult to understand why torture is used, but let me include an excerpt from the Pew research and from Beck's blog. The question asked by the Pew Research Center (link to Pew Report) is:
Do you think the use of torture against suspected terrorists in order to gain important information can often be justified, sometimes be justified, rarely be justified, or never be justified?
The outcome is as follows as shown in Beck's blog:
"49% of the total US population felt that torture can often or sometimes be justified. When this population trend was broken down by religious demographic the following trends emerged. First, 62% White evangelical Protestants said torture can often or sometimes be justified. This is an increase of +13% in pro-torture sentiment for people who ostensibly serve a Lord who said 'Love your enemies'. "
Beck went on to say:
A similar trend emerged when church attendance was examined. Fifty-four percent of people who attend religious services "at least weekly" said that torture is often or sometimes justified. That is a +5% increase over the national average. This difference might not be much but it's downright embarrassing, morally speaking, given that only 42% of people who "seldom or never" attend religious worship services saw torture as often or sometimes justified. That is, religious people were +12% more in favor of torture than the irreligious. Translated into my religious tradition, this means Christians were more in favor of torture than non-Christians.
I find this very disturbing. Perhaps this is why I have tended to steer away from organized religion except for individual churches that are more liberal and have tolerance of differences in people. This report by the Pew Center reinforces what I have long suspected.

It will be interesting to see what these students at Abilene Christian decide when they answer Dr. Beck's question:
"...what's going on here? Is this all just about politics? Or is there something about religious people, Christians in particular, that make them pro-torture?"
It's darn scary!

18 comments:

Bonnie Zieman, M.Ed. said...

Yup - it's called either/or thinking. People so used to following 'what is written' that they can't discern nuances, don't know there are many truths, cannot bear ambiguity. Then, too, they are following the example of their god who had his people stone each other, or turned a woman into a pillar of salt for looking back . . . . Vengeful gods produce vengeful followers.

Anonymous said...

...thought I'd call into a major religion church (don't want to offend anyone here) to say a prayer for loved ones for All Soul's Day.Remembered "they" didn't want me anymore because I chose to escape an unhappy marriage, and was not prepared to live my life in separated celibacy.How ridiculous.Our civil second marriage is filled with love, but not recognised by the church.Exclusion and discrimination do not feel loving and forgiving to me.So thank-you but like many others who have left in droves,I now know my spirituality is private,as such very much my own business, and a much healthier alternative.I also don't agree with torture, but if someone evil knew the wherabouts of my daughter if anything happened to her, I could be pretty damn tempted to do something mighty painful to extract the information given the chance.I feel only a tad ashamed to say that - but very hypocritical.I mean, can you say "there's torture, and torture", or killing for the higher good? Big questions.To me, evil begets evil.Anything involving genuine love (side-stepping nationalism here) is good.

Titus said...

Downright terrifying!
I can't help thinking some other demographics must be coming into play here, but it does have the smack of fundamentalism about it.
Perhaps strongly believing you are "right" makes you think you have the right to treat the (suspected) "wrong" as less than human.

Angela said...

That makes me SICK!

steven said...

i know a loving god that is present in all and everything. this is very different to the god i knew as a child who was personified in the classic form. an old man who had emotions that ran his decision making. who took sides. etc. etc. no more. have a peaceful day. steven

Tess Kincaid said...

"Vengeful gods produce vengeful followers". Bonnie hit the nail on the head, here. Fundamentalist Christians are some of the most ruthless, heartless people I have ever known.

Cheryl Cato said...

Bonnie, I found your words, "vengeful gods produce vengeful followers", quite interesting given the people Beck refers to are Christians and should follow the teachings of Jesus. It seems many modern-day Christians flip back & forth between the old & new testaments; after all one can justify anything (almost anything) depending on which section of the bible is read.

Cheryl Cato said...

Pam, it is sad that people are rejected by some churches because of divorce... just when a person most needs comfort and support it is removed. Pity that your church & many others just don't get it.
"Experts" say that torture does not bring forth the truth, but that a person will say anything to make it stop... we are talking national security here... how can we torture our enemies in war and not expect to have our people tortured in return? Just because the enemy tortures doesn't make it right or mean we have to do so.

Cheryl Cato said...

Titus, I suppose one can never be sure what drives a person to answer in a specific way, but fundamentalism seems to produce a mob mentality. It's a pity fundamental teaching doesn't steer people toward more tolerant, loving, inclusive feelings. It seems channeled to stir up the masses rather than calm them.

Cheryl Cato said...

Yeah, Angela, it makes me sick too!

Steven, you are lucky to know yourself & your god as loving.

Willow, I fall into your camp of thinking.

Anonymous said...

I think, well BELIEVE actually that the root of all wars stems from religion. I'm not anti-religious, because I do think it has a place in the world. However, the contradictions between beliefs and actual actions is bewildering to me.

I was raised the son of a Baptist minister, and was active in the church until I left for college. I don't consider myself a practicing anything today.

If I were to say I was 'spiritual' that may sound cliche, or an lame attempt at 'religion-lite'. However, I believe in the inate kindness of people, and believe that if I set a good example and treat others the way I would want to be treated, that's really all the 'religion' we need.

ellen abbott said...

One more excellent reason I don't do religion.

Unknown said...

Interesting post & great discussion here. Sadly, I think Willow has a point--while it's not the only reason I can't see myself following a Christian path, it's certainly an important reason.

Val said...

i feel, sadly, that the powerful religious groups are mostly about politics anyhow - and i also hold them responsible for a lot of our environmental damage and species loss; having 'dominion over the earth' seems to mean the right to use and abuse for profit and personal gain, when it should mean to take responsbility and care. Like so many others i choose not to align, and try to be the best person i can be. very interesting post thanks!

Cheryl Cato said...

Ellen... short & to the point.

Cheryl Cato said...

Mad-texter, John, and Val,

I have found only one church with a congregation that I think/feel/believe is truly concerned about people, our planet, and who try to live charitable lives... I think these are few and far, far between. Christians should be about leading lives based on the teachings of the one they follow.
I've, well, been a "vacillator" most of my life from a teen onward through life. At this point with all I have witnessed by "christians" I have swung so far afield that like ellen "I don't do religion" and have little patience with people who "believe" one thing and "act" the opposite.

secret agent woman said...

Well, think about it - one of the basic beliefs of Christianity is that God had his own son tortured and murdered as a way of "saving" people. It's a twisted view of Love.

Bee said...

An interesting finding. Doesn't surprise me a bit; UNFORTUNATELY.